Indian Nations Youth Sports

Football => 4th Grade => Topic started by: LCL97 on October 27, 2020, 09:17:55 pm

Title: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: LCL97 on October 27, 2020, 09:17:55 pm
Has been a great season but it's just about done at this point. Only a few more games that matter this weekend other than fine tuning before Playoffs or PST. By all means let me know if anyone sees a mistake here or knows something I don’t.

Divisional Rankings
With Piedmont disqualified, D1 playoff spots are locked, just a little question of who lands where possibly?
D1
Stillwater   7-0. Stillwater’s record will show them undefeated on paper.
Newcastle   5-2. Newcastle already beat Gold but if Gold beats Stillwater and Newcastle Loses, they could flip I think.
Choctaw Gold   5-2.

D2 Looks pretty much locked up from what I can tell.
D2

Glenpool   8-0. - This team is so good I barely ever even mention them. Most likely the 2020 INFC champs but they have had an easier path than most this year. Still probably won't matter.
Jenks Maroon   5-3. Locked up with an easy win over BA Silver this weekend.
TYAA   5-3. Yellowjackets have the same record, but TYAA owns the tiebreaker as long as they beat Union Silver. (U has the chance to be spoilers)

I believe D3 is also locked. Even if BA Gold, Collinsville, and U Black all finish 6-3, which is unlikely, U Black will be kept out based on tiebreakers with the other 2.
D3
Jenks Silver   8-0. - An unexpected dominant force. Hope they, and or Skiatook get to play Glenpool.
BA Gold   6-2. - Solid team that could go as far as final four, or drop round 1. Who knows.
Collinsville   6-2. - Sort of a suprising season for the dirty birds. Not as dominant in the past obviously, but could still get to the finals for 3rd year in a row? or 4th, not sure.

I previously said not a lot likely to change in D4, and sure enough, a lot has changed. I said before Muskogee had a chance to ruin someone’s day and they did. With Claremore and Grove losing to them, Bixby Blue has a strong chance to take the 3rd seed from Grove this weekend.
D4   
Skiatook   8-0. As I said above, these guys may be one of only 2 or 3 teams that could beat Glenpool.
BA White   7-1.- probably the best 2 seed there is.
Bixby Blue   5-3.  – I previously stated these guys didn’t have an impressive win, but I am being serious when I say barely losing to Skiatook and BA White is impressive. Was surprised when I saw both of those scores, and they can now hang their hat on the Claremore win. Taking down Grove would only add to their legitimacy as a 3rd seed team that could go far.  I’ll be picking Blue over Grove at this point though.
Grove   5-3. – Muskogee is a great team, but was still a little surprised to see they’d taken down Grove. They’ll have to be on their A Game if they want to get past Bixby Blue.

AA
Verdigris   8-0. – Verdigris is better than possibly half of the Single A teams.
Lincoln Christian 7-1. Lincoln would have a shot at beating at least a few of the 3 seed A teams.
Sequoyah   6-2. Great, well coached, and solid kids that really play as a team.


Overall Rankings
Here’s my best shot at it. I’ll admit I’ve been down on the west teams all year, probably partly out of bias. Hard to ignore that Choctaw beat BA Gold in the playoffs last year, and all 3 west teams will get their chance to prove themselves again soon. Given the right circumstances I’m sure any of these teams could pull out a win against each other on any given day.
1.   Glenpool
2.   Skiatook
3.   Jenks Silver
4.   BA White
5.   BA Gold
6.   Collinsville
7.   Bixby Blue
7b.   Grove
8.   Jenks Maroon
9.   TYAA
10.   Stillwater
11.   Newcastle
12.   Choctaw Gold

Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: bk99 on October 27, 2020, 09:25:47 pm
Exceptional evaluation
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: LCL97 on October 27, 2020, 09:26:13 pm
To clarify 1 point above, I meant that Verdigris could probably beat half the single A  teams that will be in the single A playoffs.
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: Lockwood81 on October 27, 2020, 09:39:01 pm
Awesome breakdowns... It has been a different world down here in AA ball.. The playoffs for AA are just about sewed up, with a battle for the 3 seed happening Saturday... then it should be Metro for the 5th spot,  with Sapulpa having a shot to sneak in at 5...
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: Dropback on October 28, 2020, 08:18:25 am
Do non-division losses count towards playoffs? If not that changes the conversation a little. Bixby White only has 2 division losses and would be playing Collinsville for that 3rd spot.
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: BRIX-NEWT on October 28, 2020, 10:02:10 am
You are right on the money, and that makes two back to back games at Bixby high school on Saturday -well worth the price of admission.
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: LCL97 on October 28, 2020, 12:06:05 pm
Good question drop back. That might possibly change things for several teams. I didn't even think about non divisional losses. I just assumed they would still count against teams.
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: LCL97 on October 28, 2020, 12:28:54 pm
I just looked in the rule book and can't see a difinitive answer really. But doesn't say anywhere that non divisional games don't count. If someone else knows for sure let us know.
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: jk07 on October 28, 2020, 12:37:52 pm
I think Muskogee still has an outside shot in D4. If Muskogee and Grove win it will be a 3 way tie
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: jk07 on October 28, 2020, 12:55:09 pm
Overall playoff rankings

1.   Glenpool
2.   Skiatook
3.   Jenks Silver
4.   BA Gold
5.   BA White
6.   Collinsville/Bixby White
7.   Jenks Maroon
8.   Stillwater
9.   TYAA
10. Bixby Blue/Grove/Muskogee
11.  Newcastle
12.  Choctaw Gold
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: Puck on October 28, 2020, 12:58:54 pm
@jk07,

naw, unfortunately, we’re out no matter what. Our loss to BxB Blue hurt our chance for 3rd seed.
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: Dropback on October 28, 2020, 12:59:20 pm
You’re right, no clear cut rule in the book but it does say tie breakers come down to marginal points in division games only. So I would guess only division records count for playoff contention.
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: Puck on October 28, 2020, 01:08:55 pm
The crazy thing about Div 4 is BxB Blue could lose to Grove and still possibly get the 3rd seed. If BxB happens to lose, both Grove and BxB Blue would have three division losses, but BxB would still have more division standing points. 🤯
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: jk07 on October 28, 2020, 01:38:17 pm
@ puck

are you sure cause
cause if Grove beats Blue then

Blue beat Muskogee
Grove beat Blue
Muskogee beat Grove

all with 3 D4 losses.

I think it would come down to marginal points, but not 100% sure.
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: Puck on October 28, 2020, 01:48:14 pm
@jk07,

Dude! I’m tripping. I kept thinking our CVille game was a divisional game. 🤦🏽‍♂️ But, overall all, BxB Blue still has the edge, standing points wise.
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: Dropback on October 28, 2020, 01:58:15 pm
INFC site divisional rankings look like they include all losses. Not sure on the accuracy though.
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: jk07 on October 28, 2020, 02:43:37 pm
FYI, not sure if this helps

Article 2: Marginal Points
Marginal Points shall be calculated for each divisional game played
throughout the regular season. Post-Season eligibility and seeding shall be determined utilizing marginal points. The maximum number of marginal points
per game shall be eight points. No team shall add or subtract more than eight
points per game.
A. The maximum number of marginal points for any games that went into
overtime shall be plus or minus one point.
B. If two teams are tied (on marginal points), the advancer shall be the
team that defeated the other during the regular season.
1. If three teams are tied (on marginal points), the advancer shall be
determined by coin toss at a time and place determined by the
Commissioner.
2. Remaining playoff spots for tied teams, which lose the coin toss,
shall be determined by which team defeated the other during the
regular season play
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: Justafan23 on October 30, 2020, 12:21:23 am
Rankings only include divisional games, non division don’t count for or against you. The INFC website is all wrong and screwed up. The way I read the rules is that playoffs and seeds are determined on marginal points FIRST. Marginal points only count from divisional games. And an OT win/loss only counts as 1 point for/against you. Then if tied in marginal points it goes
to head to head. It really doesn’t say anything about win-loss record. So technically a team
With more division losses could get in the playoffs over a team with less division losses if they have more marginal points.

FYI, not sure if this helps

Article 2: Marginal Points
Marginal Points shall be calculated for each divisional game played
throughout the regular season. Post-Season eligibility and seeding shall be determined utilizing marginal points. The maximum number of marginal points
per game shall be eight points. No team shall add or subtract more than eight
points per game.
A. The maximum number of marginal points for any games that went into
overtime shall be plus or minus one point.
B. If two teams are tied (on marginal points), the advancer shall be the
team that defeated the other during the regular season.
1. If three teams are tied (on marginal points), the advancer shall be
determined by coin toss at a time and place determined by the
Commissioner.
2. Remaining playoff spots for tied teams, which lose the coin toss,
shall be determined by which team defeated the other during the
regular season play
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: Dropback on October 30, 2020, 10:13:08 am
That’s the way I interpreted the rule book too. Doesn’t make much sense though, it seems wins/losses would come first, then head to head, then maybe marginal points for a tie breaker
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: bk99 on October 30, 2020, 10:19:18 am
Always have needed a magic decoder ring every dang playoff year to figure it out
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: morris23 on October 30, 2020, 11:24:10 am
Always have needed a magic decoder ring every dang playoff year to figure it out

The only ring you need are those champ rings! You guys looking great this year.... once again lol
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: BRIX-NEWT on October 30, 2020, 12:37:23 pm

I posed the question in the general discussion area of the forum and this was the response from the administrator;

forumadmin:

Playoffs are determined by overall divisional record.  In the event of a tie, head to head matchup determines the tiebreaker.  In the event of a three way tie, marginal points (+/-8 per game) are used to advance.  If the remaining two are still tied, it then goes back to head-to-head matchup.
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: bk99 on October 30, 2020, 01:18:55 pm
Always have needed a magic decoder ring every dang playoff year to figure it out

The only ring you need are those champ rings! You guys looking great this year.... once again lol


Appreciate the kind words. We’re just learning the game down here, buckling chinstraps without a coach, catching a  pass etc. We’re getting there day by day instead of week by week
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: Dude on October 30, 2020, 02:55:51 pm

I posed the question in the general discussion area of the forum and this was the response from the administrator;

forumadmin:

Playoffs are determined by overall divisional record.  In the event of a tie, head to head matchup determines the tiebreaker.  In the event of a three way tie, marginal points (+/-8 per game) are used to advance.  If the remaining two are still tied, it then goes back to head-to-head matchup.

Something to clarify that was left out above in relation to a 3 way tie between 3 teams. It still goes head to head first, so if one team beat the other two that team would be the winner. That is rare though.
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: Justafan23 on October 30, 2020, 03:21:13 pm
The forum admin probably knows but that info directly contradicts what the rule book says. It specifically states playoffs and seeds are determined by marginal points. (Article 2, page 28)


I posed the question in the general discussion area of the forum and this was the response from the administrator;

forumadmin:

Playoffs are determined by overall divisional record.  In the event of a tie, head to head matchup determines the tiebreaker.  In the event of a three way tie, marginal points (+/-8 per game) are used to advance.  If the remaining two are still tied, it then goes back to head-to-head matchup.
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: Coach butler on October 30, 2020, 03:24:29 pm
4th grade Muskogee gets win do to forfeit
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: morris23 on October 31, 2020, 07:47:59 am
Always so humble my friend!

Always have needed a magic decoder ring every dang playoff year to figure it out

The only ring you need are those champ rings! You guys looking great this year.... once again lol


Appreciate the kind words. We’re just learning the game down here, buckling chinstraps without a coach, catching a  pass etc. We’re getting there day by day instead of week by week
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: Dude on October 31, 2020, 09:08:26 pm
The forum admin probably knows but that info directly contradicts what the rule book says. It specifically states playoffs and seeds are determined by marginal points. (Article 2, page 28)


I posed the question in the general discussion area of the forum and this was the response from the administrator;

forumadmin:

Playoffs are determined by overall divisional record.  In the event of a tie, head to head matchup determines the tiebreaker.  In the event of a three way tie, marginal points (+/-8 per game) are used to advance.  If the remaining two are still tied, it then goes back to head-to-head matchup.

A. In the event three or more teams are tied with identical records and no
winner can be determined
, the advancing team shall be determined
by totaling the margin of points for each tied team in all Divisional
games (or division games if two or more divisions). The advancing
team shall be the team with the greatest number of marginal points.


If one team beats the other two that means a winner can be determined.
Team A beats Team B and Team C.

Points would be used in the following scenario.
Team A: beats Team B and loses To Team C
Team B: beats Team C and loses to Team A
Team C: beats Team A and loses to Team B
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: bk99 on November 01, 2020, 12:48:05 am
Let’s go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: Riggs99 on November 01, 2020, 01:53:38 am
So what do we know now?
Title: Re: Final Divisional Rankings
Post by: Dude on November 01, 2020, 07:57:01 am
D1
Choctaw Gold
Stilly
Newcastle

D2
Glenpool
Jenks Maroon
TYAA

D3
Jenks Silver
BA Gold
Cville

D4
Skiatook
BA White
Bixby Blue

AA
Verdigris
Lincoln
Hilldale
Sequoyah
Metro