Post by: SpartanPride on October 12, 2018, 08:27:17 am
Is this not how it is done everywhere? This is not meant to be a critical post, but I hate to see teams go 0-8 and then kids want to quit football because it is not fun. I've seen it over and over where an average youth athlete turns into a stud after puberty...
Just looking for some opinions or comments on how teams are formed each July where you live...
Good luck this weekend everyone!
Post by: Cards#1Fan on October 12, 2018, 08:48:21 am
Here's the list of schools with multiple teams. What are the drastic difference in W/L's that you see from these schools? BA and Owasso?
Jenks- Maroon 6-0 White 6-0
Owasso- White 6-0 Black 2-4 Red 2-3
Sand Springs- Black 1-5 Gold 0-6
Bixby- Red 4-1 Blue 4-2
BA- Black 6-0 White 6-0 Platinum 3-3 Silver 0-6 Chrome 4-2
Coweta- Black 2-4 Coweta White 2-4
Choctaw- Blue 4-2 Choctaw Gold 2-4
Union- Silver 4-2 Red 2-3 Black 2-4
Tyaa- Red 5-0 Blue 5-1
Norman- Tigers 0-6 Twolves 5-1 (I think it's two separate schools though, Norman and Norman North)
Post by: Oh Baby on October 12, 2018, 08:52:18 am
Post by: Shaffer5 on October 12, 2018, 09:27:44 am
Post by: Waterboy Bobby Boucher on October 12, 2018, 09:32:26 am
4th thru 7th grade-each team can have 2 protects each year for any new players to the infc. Then they draw by who has the least amount returning players to that team. (Example- one team has 10 returning players, another team has 12 returning players, the 3rd team has 14 returning players.) The first team will pick player(s) until they reach the same number as the team that had 12 players then they both pick until they reach the 3rd team that has 14 players and then they get to join in on the picking and so on till they get to the hat picks again.
I haven’t been in the draft room in this grade but I have been in several in years past. It’s the most cut throat thing that you have ever seen. I have seen fist fights almost break out.
I’m not positive but I believe one of the claremore coaches was in our 3rd grade draft ... not sure who was in the room this past draft.
Post by: Oh Baby on October 12, 2018, 09:42:39 am
Post by: Waterboy Bobby Boucher on October 12, 2018, 09:45:20 am
So using what you just stated about BA how is it that BA Black and White are better than the other BA Teams, coaching maybe?Coaching, Draft Room and a little bit of luck.
Sometimes it takes just one or two of the right kind if players to change the whole dynamic of a team.
Post by: B.A.Platinum on October 12, 2018, 10:02:15 am
I think all BA teams have good coaching, and players. Sometimes crap happens... injuries etc. We lost our starting RB (from last season) to basketball!? And one of our best lineman for the season to a knee injury. We’ve also had to deal with some injuries that have cost different players games here and there.... no different than anyone else.
I also think it’s tough to spread talent across 5 teams. That being said with our numbers at this grade, having 5 teams maximizes the kids playing time.
I imagine BA Silver is the main question. Silver has a good coach, but they have had to deal with several issues. Their starting QB and RB have yet to play a game. I can’t even imagine having to deal with that.
Chrome is a solid team that I believe will work their way out of the AA, and compete in the A.
Black’s coaches do a great job. They get the absolute most out of every player on their team.
Everyone knows White has great players. But they have great coaches also. Those kids love their coaches and play hard for them.
Post by: CoachEmUp" on October 12, 2018, 10:05:24 am
Post by: junebug9 on October 12, 2018, 10:12:41 am
Post by: Shaffer5 on October 12, 2018, 10:15:00 am
Post by: Waterboy Bobby Boucher on October 12, 2018, 10:20:09 am
How do they go away with ba gold who had a little run in the post season tourney to not even having ba gold this year and has BA chrome in AABA Gold only had 4 kids that wanted to return back to that team. The rest of the team either didn’t want to play football anymore or wanted to be put back into the draft. Chad wants coaches who’s players want to return back to their same team. So he disolved that team and put all those players back into the draft. BA Chrome came in with no protects and they got the first rounds of picks till they got to the team with the second lowest number of kids which was Silver then they picked.... so on and so on. Chad asked the Coach of Chrome that join our grade and pick up a team. I can only guess that the coach requested to be put in AA since he didn’t know what he really had.
Post by: CoachEmUp" on October 12, 2018, 10:21:43 am
Post by: junebug9 on October 12, 2018, 10:22:33 am
Post by: AllIn21 on October 12, 2018, 10:26:01 am
Post by: Waterboy Bobby Boucher on October 12, 2018, 10:27:16 am
Do you think he would end up on the Chrome Team? After his dad got his team taken away and they added a new coach? Would you want to play for a new coach after the league basically casted your dad out? That is basically his dad’s replacement if you look at it the right way.and golds best player somehow ended up on ba black which I could careless honestly but thought it was a little fishy
Post by: guest4483 on October 12, 2018, 10:28:05 am
Post by: CoachEmUp" on October 12, 2018, 10:32:40 am
allIn, how’s it work in Owasso? Seems like White and Black are basically the same teams from last year and Red turned over?
Bro your from Owasso Black obviously you should know.
Post by: Oh Baby on October 12, 2018, 10:35:11 am
Post by: AllIn21 on October 12, 2018, 10:37:13 am
Red and black have been around since 1st grade. So I guess what I’m saying is that there are no stacked teams in owasso, we coaches all try to get along and support each other(we took a bunch of kiddos off our team to watch the BA white vs Oblack game to support them), but there’s a struggle to get each and every talented kid.
This season Red did have quite a few kids not come back so they got most of the kids out of the draft. Sometimes I wish we could have a “stacked” owasso team but like Spartanpride said, that would make some kids want to quit that someday after the hair starts growing could be studs. So I like the format for the most part.
Post by: AllIn21 on October 12, 2018, 10:38:27 am
allIn, how’s it work in Owasso? Seems like White and Black are basically the same teams from last year and Red turned over?
Bro your from Owasso Black obviously you should know.
Lol 😜😳
Post by: Waterboy Bobby Boucher on October 12, 2018, 10:48:26 am
Post by: Coach12 on October 12, 2018, 10:48:39 am
As far as the draft and how teams are set up, @ Jenks, we do pretty much exactly what BA described, (without the recruiting of players outside of our boundaries :o :-* ). With so many returning players from last year, we didn't pick up a single player in the draft and all available players went to Jenks White as they had 3-4 players less than us at the time of the combine. Protect or not, they will even out the squads first, then allow protects and players to be drafted. We try to keep it pretty fair over here and want our fellow Jenks teams to be as competitive as possible. These boys are all going to play HS ball together one day, hopefully and no one ever got a scholarship for winning a 4th grade INFC Championship. There is no "my dad", or "new players" that live outside of the Jenks school district. I thought the rule was that if you played in INFC last year and moved to a new district with a team, that you had to sit out one year? Guess that's not the case with certain teams **cough cough BA cough cough**
Post by: Waterboy Bobby Boucher on October 12, 2018, 10:53:53 am
I thought the rule was that if you played in INFC last year and moved to a new district with a team, that you had to sit out one year? Guess that's not the case with certain teams **cough cough BA cough cough**You don’t have to sit out.... you just are not protectable and have to go into the draft **cough cough**
Post by: SpartanPride on October 12, 2018, 10:56:54 am
I think he is referring to BA. Didn't you have the samething last year in Bixby with 2 strong teams and one weaker one but this year you lost one team so you guys had to add more players on your 2 teams?
Yah, I think its pretty normal to have some variance (8-1, 6-3, 4-5) across 3 teams in a town, but 9-0 and 0-9 is what I am mainly talking about. I know there are injuries and luck and illnesses that play a factor. It has been nice to see how everyone's teams have evolved and formed. I agree the INFC is awesome and I wish we had this back where I grew up.
I liked CoachEmUp's thoughts about the leagues. I'd be interested in the AA being much larger to where maybe there would be 3 divisions in A and 3 divisions in AA so we would see more 19-14 scores instead of so many 35-0 scores across all divisions... That's what I like about USSSA baseball. Bring your team and compete at whatever level your team is at (A, AA, AAA, Majors). It keeps the kids having fun even if they aren't at the top level. My boys love baseball and they've never been on a "Majors Team." I just think there could be a better way...
Post by: Coach12 on October 12, 2018, 10:57:03 am
I thought the rule was that if you played in INFC last year and moved to a new district with a team, that you had to sit out one year? Guess that's not the case with certain teams **cough cough BA cough cough**You don’t have to sit out.... you just are not protectable and have to go into the draft **cough cough**
And get to "pick" and choose which team you go to?? Hence the "almost turning into fist fights at the draft" in front of 4th grade boys..... cough cough cough COUGH
Post by: CoachEmUp" on October 12, 2018, 11:01:56 am
Post by: Waterboy Bobby Boucher on October 12, 2018, 11:03:37 am
The almost fist fight that I was talking about happened in the 3rd grade draft room in 2011. So apparently I’m not sure what you are referring to I guess. My Bad!I thought the rule was that if you played in INFC last year and moved to a new district with a team, that you had to sit out one year? Guess that's not the case with certain teams **cough cough BA cough cough**You don’t have to sit out.... you just are not protectable and have to go into the draft **cough cough**
And get to "pick" and choose which team you go to?? Hence the "almost turning into fist fights at the draft" in front of 4th grade boys..... cough cough cough COUGH
Post by: Waterboy Bobby Boucher on October 12, 2018, 11:06:57 am
I totallly agree spartan pride!!I agree also... I’ve been saying for the past 10 years that the INFC needs to at LEAST have competitive divisions and recreational divisions in each grade.
Post by: Coach12 on October 12, 2018, 11:09:13 am
The almost fist fight that I was talking about happened in the 3rd grade draft room in 2011. So apparently I’m not sure what you are referring to I guess. My Bad!I thought the rule was that if you played in INFC last year and moved to a new district with a team, that you had to sit out one year? Guess that's not the case with certain teams **cough cough BA cough cough**You don’t have to sit out.... you just are not protectable and have to go into the draft **cough cough**
And get to "pick" and choose which team you go to?? Hence the "almost turning into fist fights at the draft" in front of 4th grade boys..... cough cough cough COUGH
3rd grade, 4th grade... Doesn't matter to me. We all read the forum posts last year where there were issues with BA and the draft process in 3rd grade. Just saying that there have been plenty of rumors and usually where there's stink, there's sh*t.... Just saying. Nothing but love to all the coaches and teams.
Post by: Waterboy Bobby Boucher on October 12, 2018, 11:22:13 am
Post by: AllIn21 on October 12, 2018, 11:29:55 am
Post by: Waterboy Bobby Boucher on October 12, 2018, 11:44:39 am
My understanding of that draft was that some coaches thought they was gonna outsmart the other coaches and some got butt hurt (it’s like a chess game)... doesn’t mean that it wasn’t a legit draft
Post by: AllIn21 on October 12, 2018, 11:52:57 am
Post by: Coach12 on October 12, 2018, 11:59:00 am
Post by: Waterboy Bobby Boucher on October 12, 2018, 12:04:32 pm
Post by: Shaffer5 on October 12, 2018, 12:07:45 pm
Post by: Coach12 on October 12, 2018, 12:14:30 pm
Rest assured that nobody needs to worry about BA stacking teams... these coaches all want to be THE best BA Team and sure as heck ain’t gonna work together to make a stacked team happen. I’ve been around the BA organization for many years and haven’t seen any coaches be able to make that happen yet. How many championships has BA won in any grade at any time in the past? I’ll wait for the correct response.
Don't get all in your feelings Bobby! This may be the year!! Black is loaded with talent and EXTREMELY well coached. Those coaches know how to motivate their boys and get the best play out of them week in and week out. And the same goes for White. I don't know much about the other 43 BA teams, but I'm sure its hard to field 45 GREAT teams with that many boys wanting to play football. A few of my lifelong friends are coaches at the high school level @ BA and hope they stay to coach some of the boys we have played against for the last few years. Now about that coffee Bobby.... Pumpkin spice or nah?? ;)
Post by: AllIn21 on October 12, 2018, 12:28:49 pm
Post by: Waterboy Bobby Boucher on October 12, 2018, 12:29:27 pm
I’ll be in the mens room the rest of the day if I have anymore coffee.Rest assured that nobody needs to worry about BA stacking teams... these coaches all want to be THE best BA Team and sure as heck ain’t gonna work together to make a stacked team happen. I’ve been around the BA organization for many years and haven’t seen any coaches be able to make that happen yet. How many championships has BA won in any grade at any time in the past? I’ll wait for the correct response.
Don't get all in your feelings Bobby! This may be the year!! Black is loaded with talent and EXTREMELY well coached. Those coaches know how to motivate their boys and get the best play out of them week in and week out. And the same goes for White. I don't know much about the other 43 BA teams, but I'm sure its hard to field 45 GREAT teams with that many boys wanting to play football. A few of my lifelong friends are coaches at the high school level @ BA and hope they stay to coach some of the boys we have played against for the last few years. Now about that coffee Bobby.... Pumpkin spice or nah?? ;)
My feelings ain’t worked up any. I’m just stating the rumors of BA stacking teams is ridiculous. Could you imagine a BA Team that consisted BA Blacks Linemen and BA White Backfield along with great key players from Platinum, Chrome and Silver?
The only word that comes to mind is “Unstoppable”!
Now, let’s talk more about getting the INFC to allow a Competitive Division of Stacked Teams.
Post by: BA BlackWolf on October 12, 2018, 12:41:55 pm
Coach12, What are you talking about clown? Allen Trimble probably invented the idea of recruiting kids from outside of your District and stacking teams. Hey more power to you if that's what you got to do to win ballgames and have a strong program. I've only gotten on here to post my picks, as well as our weekly scores and give props to the other teams and coaches for the hard work and effort they put forth in our games. Broken Arrow has the biggest high school in the state we've never won a state championship. I guess we can attribute that to stacking and cheating for all these years. Looks like we might finally get one this year if everything works out right. Personally I don't really have a problem with programs that want to Stack their teams as long as all them players are from the same school district really why would it even matter? That's what postseason tournaments are for in my eyes. Gives a coach who may not have had a great season an opportunity to take his best players and maybe mix and match with some other great players and see what they can do with a special team. I have fun reading the forums. The breakdowns each week that everybody writes are fantastic I can't wait to read them every week but when I saw the title to this thread I started reading it it became apparent that some of you clowns want to accuse BA Black of cheating and BA in general. I guess yeah I'm a little butthurt because I don't like being accused of cheating and have my Integrity questioned. I'm not the head coach but I am most definitely Affiliated obviously with Broken Arrow Black but my loyalty lies with Broken Arrow as a whole and I can tell you right now that none of the coaches for any other Broken Arrow team do anything fishy Junebug or against the rules of the league when building your team or any other team. I can also promise you that if we were stacking our teams with this fourth grade group that we got there's absolutely no chance any other team would win a championship all the way through 7th grade. I put the bank on it although it isn't much. I don't recall the winning percentage of all the grades that Broken Arrow has had in the years past but you could call Chad Lott and he could probably tell you that winning percentage it's not good.at all. All of a sudden we've got some good teams that's coming up with a chance to win a championship for Broken Arrow in the INFC. Our teams are as good as they are because of hard work. Plain and simple nothing fancy it's hard work. Its making your players Believe In You by believing in them. Its pushing them to do things they don't believe they can do. It's having great parents that trust you enough to push them that hard and instill that no quit attitude and the will to fight for everything you want not just in football, but in life because let's remember it's not just about football not by any means. I don't care who I coach who is on my team I'm going to coach every single one of them the exact same way expect the same things out of them. I haven't had a kid on the team in a long time I just love Broken Arrow football. Every single one of these coaches at 4th grade level work their butts off and have been doing so with their teams since second grade.. I don't normally get riled up 4 things said on the forum these days. I used to know a guy just like me named Silverwolf that would jump the gun quite a bit and take what people say to Heart. I've come a long way since but if you're going to get on here and accused Broken Arrow Black or our youth program as a whole of cheating then you better get your facts straight because I value my integrity. When you say something as ridiculous as pretty much this whole thread is as a broken arrow bashing thread you're also insulting my players that work harder than any team in this league. I would venture to say most your teams couldn't handle one of our practices. That's a testament to the character these kids and how hard they work not as an insult to any player or coach. Their hard work and dedication reflex weekend and week out on that field that's not the coaches that's the players. We are just giving them tools to build their house and they are doing the rest. Don't take that away from them by accusing us of cheating. I'll coach any kid on any team I just happen to be on this one and I got my kids back. You guys go troll on something else, better yet, Maybe you should be going over over some game film and prepare your team's because some of you need to work a little harder at it to be honest and quit accuse us of cheating. Good luck to you guys the rest of the season I don't get on here much I'm too busy working hard for my team. LOVE US OR HATE US, it's just the way it is. GO BA!
Post by: Unionred3rdgrade on October 12, 2018, 12:44:36 pm
Post by: Cards#1Fan on October 12, 2018, 12:52:58 pm
Post by: guest4483 on October 12, 2018, 12:55:33 pm
Post by: BA BlackWolf on October 12, 2018, 12:57:35 pm
Post by: AllIn21 on October 12, 2018, 01:00:10 pm
Post by: Cards#1Fan on October 12, 2018, 01:02:08 pm
Speaking first hand from a similar situation- My boys are playing for a new coach this year, and they are enjoying playing football for him just as much as if I were coaching.. They couldnt care any less. Lol. They show up and want nothing more than to have fun with their buddies and learn the game. I just love to watch them play!!!
Post by: Waterboy Bobby Boucher on October 12, 2018, 01:03:34 pm
Post by: Unionred3rdgrade on October 12, 2018, 01:04:19 pm
Post by: BA BlackWolf on October 12, 2018, 01:04:33 pm
Post by: Coach12 on October 12, 2018, 01:17:20 pm
Black Ruffled Feather Wolf... Did you not read where I stated that these were RUMORS that I had heard, and did not know the legitimacy of them? I apologize for getting under your skin by discussing things that have been brought up and talked about by some of us "clowns". Maybe we cant see further than our red noses and makeup. I appreciate Waterboy having a decent discussion about it and being civil. But for you to jump on here and start calling other coaches "clowns" is just downright ridiculous. And the you turn around and accuse other teams of cheating...... lol Isn't that why you are in your feelings? Stating a point to defend your club is fine and dandy and would expect you to... I guess you also skipped the posts where your team was stated as being "EXTREMELY well coached" and the team I see with the best chance to win it all. I'll repeat.... Sorry that I got your feathers so ruffled. AGAIN.... Draft issues, recruiting issues or not, you guys have a very talented team, coach those boys VERY WELL, and I love having a squad like yours in our grade! Good luck to your team the rest of the season.
Post by: Unionred3rdgrade on October 12, 2018, 01:22:58 pm
Post by: CoachEmUp" on October 12, 2018, 01:42:17 pm
Post by: Waterboy Bobby Boucher on October 12, 2018, 01:45:17 pm
go look at all the other Ba teams across the league.Exactly, go look at 5th Grade BA Teams. 3 mediocre teams at best. And one of them Chad Coaches. You would think that team would be stacked for sure.
Post by: AllIn21 on October 12, 2018, 02:03:32 pm
Post by: Cards#1Fan on October 12, 2018, 02:26:46 pm
Post by: Grandad on October 12, 2018, 03:31:47 pm
I don’t know about Tulsa, but the OKC area has other tackle leagues as an option..... some without the MPP restriction. I wish there was a tiered MPP scale. Something like 12 plays with 18 or less players, 10 plays with 19-22 players, and 8 plays with 23 or more players.
Post by: SpartanPride on October 12, 2018, 03:49:28 pm
Well I don't think the post started out to bash any team. I think it was just a insight on what other clubs do. And how do some clubs have teams that lose every game and some win every game? As I explained in my previous post. I think that comes down to coaching, injuries and poor draft.
Thanks CoachEmUp, I definitely don't have an agenda to bash anyone, nor do I care to be bashed either. I wanted to get some comments about what causes a wide competitive gap and if it is unlikely that competitive balance can be achieved, I like the idea of expanding the AA league and shrinking the A league so more kids are playing in meaningful football games. I want kids to keep playing football and get off the FORTNIGHT! Most of you stuck to the topic, some went awol. Nonetheless, it made for some entertaining reading today. Good luck tomorrow everyone!
Post by: Mav3834 on October 12, 2018, 03:51:41 pm
Post by: Shaffer5 on October 12, 2018, 05:00:51 pm
Post by: Bulldog227 on October 12, 2018, 05:05:15 pm
Personally, I think you can look at BA black as a perfect example. Obviously they had a good draft last year, but they were coached extremely well. You could have put those coaches on the sideline of any of the other BA team and they would have had similar type success. Same thing could be said for the Bixby, Jenks Maroon, Lincoln Christian, Glenpool, Norman, etc coaches. They all have plans and get their players to execute. As a coach, you know it when you see it and play against it. Having some studs always helps as well.
Post by: HeyHeyHey on October 12, 2018, 05:58:53 pm
🤔🤔🤔🤔 and golds best player somehow ended up on ba black which I could careless honestly but thought it was a little fishy
Actually 4 of Ba golds better players are on Ba black.. I don’t believe any team was “stacked”, a coach getting the short end of the stick on draft day trades because he wasn’t knowledgeable about the players in 4th grade, MAYBE.
Post by: Ball_Hawk on October 12, 2018, 09:16:19 pm
Post by: BA BlackWolf on October 12, 2018, 10:38:24 pm
Post by: MAC on October 13, 2018, 12:54:12 am
Post by: RAIDER NATION on October 13, 2018, 03:17:53 pm