Author Topic: Defensive Adjustments - MM  (Read 378 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

ODaddyO

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
  • Karma: +7/-13
Defensive Adjustments - MM
« on: November 02, 2017, 02:02:54 pm »
This is I think a really good couple of questions:

1) Team A is on offense and is running no huddle. How can the defense make an adjustment if by rule (Sect. 7, #8) the defense is frozen due to the offensive line is already set?

2) Team A has their o-line on the LOS and is in 3-pt stance, yet offensive backfield is still in huddle. Can the defense make an adjustment or are they still frozen by rule?

Share on Facebook Share on Twitter


Director of Officials

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 452
  • Karma: +10/-3
Re: Defensive Adjustments - MM
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2017, 02:37:41 pm »
The spirit of the rule is for the coaches not to be making adjustments on the field after the Offense is set up.   (offense or defense)
 
If a team is running a no huddle in offense in MM - (first off congrats getting the kids to do this, getting them lined up is normally like herding cats!) the defense should be able to get lined up correctly as long as the snap is not imminent. 

#2 - basically the same answer on this one.  If the backs are not even lined up, the defense should be allowed to adjust. 

Pretty sure coaches were taking advantage of being on the field, that is probably why this rule had to be implemented at all. 

snowkylegc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 456
  • Karma: +35/-8
Re: Defensive Adjustments - MM
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2017, 03:00:34 pm »
I also have a mighty mite question, about offense formations.

According to the rules, on shotgun formations, it says the qb must be lined up directly behind the center.  My question is how is qb defined?  Is it defined as strictly a physical position/location on the field, or is it defined as the person who receives the snap from the center?  I bring it up because i see some teams line up in shotgun pro set with all three backs lined up in a row, legally (debatable, but that's not important here), but then at the snap, all the backs take off one way and the snap ends up going to one of the split backs with the other two becoming lead blockers.  It seems like if the qb is the player who receives the snap, then that play would be illegal as the qb started somewhere other than directly behind the center, but if it strictly physical position/location, it's legal.

Note: I have no issue whatsoever with this type of offense, it doesn't affect how we prepare at all, i just wanted to get some insight of how some of the rules are interpreted by the committee, that's all.  Thanks.

ODaddyO

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
  • Karma: +7/-13
Re: Defensive Adjustments - MM
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2017, 03:15:17 pm »
Thank you for the answer. Got into this debate with some officials last week as the team we played ran a no-huddle offense. They were telling my defensive coach that he could not make adjustments since the offensive line was already at the LOS and in 3-pt stance, even thought the QB was walking behind each one a give the play call before settling in the backfield and starting his cadence.

Snowkylegc, that is a legal formation with a direct snap to one of the backs, which is also legal. What would make it illegal would be if the team's backfield was loaded to one side or the other. I think that is the correct answer, but I could be wrong in my wording


snowkylegc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 456
  • Karma: +35/-8
Re: Defensive Adjustments - MM
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2017, 03:30:23 pm »
When i said debatable,  i was talking about the three backs being in a straight line,  which would be illegal,  since the qb is "supposed" to be 2 yards deep max. in shotgun and the backs are supposed to be 3 yards deep min,  per the rulebook.  But that aspect wasn't important as it pertains to my question, since even if they were lined up per the rules, that play could still be executed as designed.  I've asked a couple questions before about plays that are legal,  but by the letter of the rulebook would be illegal.   Like i said, I'm not trying to say it is or isn't legal, just kinda trying to get some insight into how the committee interprets some rules, since different people can have different opinions on how to define "qb".

ODaddyO

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
  • Karma: +7/-13
Re: Defensive Adjustments - MM
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2017, 03:42:47 pm »
Oh, makes sense...LOL! Thought I could help some but I guess I was wrong...LMAO! I do see what you're saying as pertaining to the direct snap going to a back rather than the player positioned directly behind the center in the traditional QB placement. It is an interesting question
Like Like x 1 View List

snowkylegc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 456
  • Karma: +35/-8
Re: Defensive Adjustments - MM
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2017, 03:49:54 pm »
also, i'd kinda like to get the reasoning behind why the qb is only allowed to be 2 yards deep on shotgun.  if it's to prevent them from getting a running start after they catch the ball, then is seems like a direct snap to a back should be illegal, as they are supposed to be deeper than the qb. if it's so the center doesn't have to snap the ball with more force, then it would also seem like a direct snap to a deeper back should be illegal as well. if it's for some other reason, so be it, just something i'm interested in understanding.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 04:15:27 pm by snowkylegc »

Director of Officials

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 452
  • Karma: +10/-3
Re: Defensive Adjustments - MM
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2017, 02:14:44 pm »
Pretty sure INFC just wanted to set up a couple of standardized basic offenses to teach the 1st and 2nd graders the basics of football without getting too in depth.  MM is a developmental league where we are trying to teach the basics.  I know some teams are more advanced than others but you have to have a set of rules for teams to go by and that is what the INFC came up with to make it uniform. 

There is nothing that I can find in the INFC MM rules that says the snap has to go to the QB so that is legal at this point.  Teams are always going to be looking for what they think is an advantage, personally I don't see an advantage to snapping it to the HB instead of the QB back because he is a yard deeper but to each his own at this point.   

Once the season is over if you would like to email me at bkelleyok@gmail.com I will submit the rule change request(s) to the INFC officers in the offseason.  Does not mean it will be changed but we will certainly consider all requests.   

snowkylegc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 456
  • Karma: +35/-8
Re: Defensive Adjustments - MM
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2017, 03:01:10 pm »
Pretty sure INFC just wanted to set up a couple of standardized basic offenses to teach the 1st and 2nd graders the basics of football without getting too in depth.  MM is a developmental league where we are trying to teach the basics.  I know some teams are more advanced than others but you have to have a set of rules for teams to go by and that is what the INFC came up with to make it uniform. 

There is nothing that I can find in the INFC MM rules that says the snap has to go to the QB so that is legal at this point.  Teams are always going to be looking for what they think is an advantage, personally I don't see an advantage to snapping it to the HB instead of the QB back because he is a yard deeper but to each his own at this point.   

Once the season is over if you would like to email me at bkelleyok@gmail.com I will submit the rule change request(s) to the INFC officers in the offseason.  Does not mean it will be changed but we will certainly consider all requests.   
Thanks for your response.  I know you're probably really busy this time of year, as more coaches are wanting clarification on certain things more important than this topic as the stakes are greater.  I personally like the allowed formations at this point (pro, I, pro shotgun, I shotgun).  The only thing i might like to see changed is the allowable depth of the qb in shotgun to be variable (I already see teams' qbs lined up deeper than 2 yards and it isn't called, but i wouldn't bring that to an official's attention as i don't really see it as an advantage).  If there's no logical reason as to why he needs to be 2 yards max, i don't see the need to set a max depth for the qb (if there were a reason for a max depth, i.e. not allowing him extra room to build momentum, or to keep the center from having to snap it so far, it seems like that would mean the snap should be required to go to the qb as the halfback breaks all the rules of formation requirements of "qb"). Since that's not a requirement, i say let the qb line up however deep he wants. 

 I agree, i don't personally see an advantage snapping to HB either.  Like i said previously, it doesn't affect how we prepare our team, and I don't necessarily think it should be illegal, i was just wondering if there was anything in the rules to back it up one way or the other.  But you cleared it up for me.  Thanks again.

ODaddyO

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
  • Karma: +7/-13
Re: Defensive Adjustments - MM
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2017, 03:04:12 pm »
Great insight. Thanks again for even asking that question

Pretty sure INFC just wanted to set up a couple of standardized basic offenses to teach the 1st and 2nd graders the basics of football without getting too in depth.  MM is a developmental league where we are trying to teach the basics.  I know some teams are more advanced than others but you have to have a set of rules for teams to go by and that is what the INFC came up with to make it uniform. 

There is nothing that I can find in the INFC MM rules that says the snap has to go to the QB so that is legal at this point.  Teams are always going to be looking for what they think is an advantage, personally I don't see an advantage to snapping it to the HB instead of the QB back because he is a yard deeper but to each his own at this point.   

Once the season is over if you would like to email me at bkelleyok@gmail.com I will submit the rule change request(s) to the INFC officers in the offseason.  Does not mean it will be changed but we will certainly consider all requests.   
Thanks for your response.  I know you're probably really busy this time of year, as more coaches are wanting clarification on certain things more important than this topic as the stakes are greater.  I personally like the allowed formations at this point (pro, I, pro shotgun, I shotgun).  The only thing i might like to see changed is the allowable depth of the qb in shotgun to be variable (I already see teams' qbs lined up deeper than 2 yards and it isn't called, but i wouldn't bring that to an official's attention as i don't really see it as an advantage).  If there's no logical reason as to why he needs to be 2 yards max, i don't see the need to set a max depth for the qb (if there were a reason for a max depth, i.e. not allowing him extra room to build momentum, or to keep the center from having to snap it so far, it seems like that would mean the snap should be required to go to the qb as the halfback breaks all the rules of formation requirements of "qb"). Since that's not a requirement, i say let the qb line up however deep he wants. 

 I agree, i don't personally see an advantage snapping to HB either.  Like i said previously, it doesn't affect how we prepare our team, and I don't necessarily think it should be illegal, i was just wondering if there was anything in the rules to back it up one way or the other.  But you cleared it up for me.  Thanks again.

snowkylegc

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 456
  • Karma: +35/-8
Re: Defensive Adjustments - MM
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2017, 03:12:33 pm »
Great insight. Thanks again for even asking that question
no problem, but i just reread the rules/looked at allowable formations, and i was a little misguided.  the backs are allowed to be 2 yards off or deeper, not 3 yards or deeper like i originally thought, so the 3 backs straight across is totally legal, as long as they are exactly 2 yards behind the ball.  however, i think every team i've seen run that has been at least 3.  but i'm not worried about it and wouldn't call it out in a game.  i still think the qb should be allowed as deep as they want to be, or at least max it out where they are even with the other backs, no matter how deep that is.  jmo :)

Director of Officials

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 452
  • Karma: +10/-3
Re: Defensive Adjustments - MM
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2017, 03:59:52 pm »
Technically, it is 2 yards from the center's butt so it is really 3+ yards from the LOS, depending on how big your center is :)