Author Topic: Standards  (Read 820 times)

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pappaof2

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Standards
« on: February 23, 2016, 10:02:20 pm »
Just out of curiosity, is there a meeting that takes place at the beginning of each INBC season where it is decided how or to what level games are going to be officiated at?  For example, someone says this year we are going to let the boys play and only call the really obvious fouls or in 6th grade we are going to start calling all fouls similar to HS.

The reason I ask is there is a huge difference in officiating between lets say between 4th - 8th vs. the HS level.  I have children in 4th and 6th and it is usually very physical because calls are not made.  My biggest concern is injury to young children.  I also question what we are teaching our kids in practice as compared to what really happens in a game.  I've gone through the whole season once again and every year people complain and nothing changes.  Is this a conscious decision by the league or some referee association or training class?  It would help to know as we go into a season so we can prepare kids accordingly.  Thank you

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Coach Jon

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Re: Standards
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2016, 09:02:43 pm »
I am not a referee. I would not want that job and commend those who dedicate the time to call games (even if they don't call a great game).

We've played 30-ish games this year and have only had two games called with poor officiating.

Refs struggle when the teams are not equally matched (ie, 15+ point differential in talent) and when the overall talent level is low (ie, when fouls or turnovers could be called virtually every trip down the court). Refs struggle when teams do not play "fundamental basketball". I've had a ref say that to me - that by trying to get my players to play "properly" it is easier to officiate.

Just my 2 cents.

pappaof2

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Re: Standards
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2016, 09:16:01 am »
Thanks for your comment Jon,

Unfortunately, it doesn't answer my question.  If the answer is that there would be to many fouls called at these younger ages and the game would take to long then that would be an answer.  If that is the case was that a decision made by everyone at the beginning of the season or is it some unwritten rule?

I would not agree with that decision though.  All contact fouls should be called regardless.  It would only slow the game down for a while and yes it would help reinforce the rules we are teaching our kids.  I understand that in second grade might be to young but starting in 3rd or 4th is not.  The kids would learn how to play the game a lot quicker if we officiated closer. 

By the way my post here is not to rip on the referees.  It is just simply trying to gain an understanding to create an open dialog to help improve the game at the grade school levels. 

chefzebra

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Re: Standards
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2016, 03:47:08 pm »
Not a ref, but love the game.

In all youth sports, there is a progression that takes place over many years. From smaller fields, less players on each side, putting a baseball on a tee, there are hundreds of examples across all youth sports and competitions.
The game starts as an 'general outline', and the game and rules enforcement tighten as the players skill, coordination, and brain power develops.

Officiating in basketball is no exception.
If younger ages of youth basketball was called by the letter of the law, there would be a lot of 2 to 6 type games, and a lot less players coming back to play next year. Baseball added a tee so players can hit the ball easier, which means more runs, and making more kids continue to play. Really younger basketball kids have an 8 foot goal in hopes of scoring more points, and keeping the kids involved with the game. If that means some travels are let go, incidental fouls aren't called, and a shooter crosses the ft line a little early, so be it. The more kids that play the game, the game and the talent level grow.


chefzebra

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Re: Standards
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2016, 03:53:26 pm »
Quote
All contact fouls should be called regardless.

You may have the wrong idea of what a contact foul is. Not all contact in basketball IS a foul... Can you give a couple of examples of what fouls you think should be called that are consistently not?

pappaof2

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Re: Standards
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2016, 08:08:38 am »
Thanks for your comment Chefzebra.

I would agree with your baseball reference if we were talking about 2nd grade and younger.  By the time most kids reach 3rd grade and certainly 4th grade, most of the kids understand all of the fouls that all called correctly.  Travelling much of the time is a thing of the past, not always but most of the time.  All kids know that you can't reach in from behind or run into a kid in an attempt to get the ball or stop a player from driving to the basket.  Charging is probably the one and only foul that is not fully understood at this level. However, because this type of contact is not always called, it still happens a lot more than it should.  My point is the obvious contact foul is not always called.  Now I did not say the word "consistent".  Nothing is consistent in basketball.  As far as a contact foul goes lets just assume we know what is and isn't a contact foul.  If we want to discuss that, then lets start a new topic because that is a topic all to itself.

The bottom line from my standpoint is and I really haven't heard a valid argument against, is grade school ball starting in at least 4th grade should be officiated at a level that is more consistent with 9th grade.  If you haven't seen a HS game then go to a couple and you will see the difference.

Otown

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Re: Standards
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2016, 05:06:03 pm »
Thanks for your comment Chefzebra.

I would agree with your baseball reference if we were talking about 2nd grade and younger.  By the time most kids reach 3rd grade and certainly 4th grade, most of the kids understand all of the fouls that all called correctly.  Travelling much of the time is a thing of the past, not always but most of the time.  All kids know that you can't reach in from behind or run into a kid in an attempt to get the ball or stop a player from driving to the basket.  Charging is probably the one and only foul that is not fully understood at this level. However, because this type of contact is not always called, it still happens a lot more than it should.  My point is the obvious contact foul is not always called.  Now I did not say the word "consistent".  Nothing is consistent in basketball.  As far as a contact foul goes lets just assume we know what is and isn't a contact foul.  If we want to discuss that, then lets start a new topic because that is a topic all to itself.

The bottom line from my standpoint is and I really haven't heard a valid argument against, is grade school ball starting in at least 4th grade should be officiated at a level that is more consistent with 9th grade.  If you haven't seen a HS game then go to a couple and you will see the difference.

Papa,
As a father, I share your frustration.  As a coach, I think it's important for calls to be subjective at the rec level of basketball. I'll give you a couple examples; My daughter plays in a rec division and has picked up proper defense techniques quicker than many of the girls. I've noticed she's called for certain fouls that are ignored when committed by other players.  As a father and competitor, this is very frustrating. Despite my frustration, I understand why it's called on her and not called on other players.  Another example that comes to mind is a group of 6th grade girls I've watched practice numerous times. They work hard and enjoy themselves but it's clear they are behind for their age.  After speaking with a parent, I found that most were, in fact, in their first year of basketball.  If the ref's call every violation and foul, the players will have a bad experience and likely never play the game again. 

Ultimately, my opinion is recreational divisions, for all ages,  should focus on development and enjoyment.  This requires leniency in the rules. It's frustrating and I my even be able to attribute a win or loss to 'blown' ref calls but I still believe it's the best approach.  Select divisions should be called more like high school.